Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.
However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.
Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?
If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!
I’m afraid not.
No, not really I suppose
Well, I’m still hoping for Linux phones to skyrocket a bit when more people realize we’re fucked with Google. But as of today I don’t think we have a reliable alternative for day to day use…
We first need Linux phones to be reliable daily drivers; so far everyone I’ve encountered who has a linux phone says it’s usable… wiþ caveats.
We have to eliminate þe caveats in at least a handful of phones, first.
Linux phone will hopefully become realistic thing.
But the more this goes on the more my attitude has changed. I now do far less on my phone, I’m more careful about what I expose to it. As a result I spend very little time on it and that’s been great.
To be clear I hate what’s happening, it’s just been working out to improve my time.
“Linux phones will skyrocketed” by who? Nerds, the comum user doesn’t care if Android is proprietary or opensource, they don’t even know.
There’s already other mobile OS but have the same issue, no apps or developers interested on making apps for it.
FirefoxOS, Ubuntu touch, something else Linux based, it’s for some nerds play on a secondary phone.
Comum people don’t stop using Windows or macOS because it’s proprietary or a privacy nightmare. EU didn’t stop selling iPhones because it’s proprietary.
It’s the device vendors that decide which OS would ship, and people will use it
Android is already thoroughly Linux-based ;) You just called all android users nerds!
only the ones who know android is using the linux kernel
And yet Linux usage on desktop is rising.
Not as much as it should be IMO but it’s fallacy to think things won’t change.
Or is IBM still top dog?
Because the main apps used on other systems work on Linux, and also games.
Linux phones now is more Linux in early 2000, a few apps that kinda work, you don’t have banking apps, games, android auto like, streaming apps or any of most common apps used by users
With that attitude it is 💅
Oh you mean reality.
which attitude is the right one then? what will solve the problem?
comum
Comum
I read it as co-mum.
What do you think will happen next?
Development of Linux on mobile will ramp up.
EU or similar wrecking Google over being monopolistic would be nice but unlikely.
Same but targeting phone manufacturers.From the EU to wreck Google e-Foundation, with advantage substituting GMail, GDocs and GDrive >Murena Workspace, Murena Phones (FairPhone) with /e/OS by default, Murena is OpenSource (GitLab) selfhostable or Freemium if not, including Murena Cloud., All 100% de-googled and encrypted, no knowledge. The EU offers enough alternatives, you only have to use these.
i was going to do this until i discovered that their non-pixel devices have poor network coverage in the united states.
also doesn’t /e/os has the same problems that other projects like grapheneos has when it comes to google locking down android?
Yes, FairPhone is currently somewhat bullied by the traditional companies. I don’t think that /e/OS will have problems with Google, it’s like also Linage OS, a fork of Android (FOSS) with the only difference that all refereences and APIs of Google are gutted and out of it’s influence. It’s a pure Android code as is and as such 100% compatible with all Android apps, but these don’t depend on to be approved by Google like those for the normal stock Android.
these don’t depend on to be approved by Google like those for the normal stock Android.
Didn’t Google recently require all app developers to register w them?
In an FOSS which is free to use, to fork and modify for everyone? The only copyright that Google has over Android made, that the fork can’t be called Android nor use it’s logo, because this the forks are called /e(OS and LinageOS with different logos. Naturally Google has the right to select Android devs and those which develope apps for Google play, but this isn’t aplicable to the mencioned and other forks, these are out of the reach of Google, except if they still contain certain APIs from Google or using apps from Google Play, not the case in the mencioned forks. It’s like with Chromium, there are forks which simply patch their logo on it and those which use de-googled forks (Brave (?), Vivaldi, de-googled Chromium and also EDGE (with it’s own tracking APIs from M$) )which are not phoning home to Google.
absolutely ture in a purely foss environment; but we’re talking about android phones whose manufacturers are locking down the bootloaders in lock step with google’s efforts to lock down android.
both lineageos and e/os/ are going to be difficult to maintain going forward without projects like murena making their own phones.
We need the EU to regulate Banking and Payment apps to not rely on Google apis first and mandate that they have to be available in open app stores or as apk.
Right now the EU regulation is pushing banks to require more of Google or Apple because it’s unclear and banks won’t take a chance of getting fined.
Among the requirements are: ensure the device and the OS were not “altered”. What does that mean exactly? Answer: [crickets].
But that’s why many banks just go with the Google Play Integrity API.
Exactly. It’s like we’ve somehow been told that we must support only the main 2 OSs and nothing else.
It’s true. There’s a fair few things with my bank I can only do with the app - they shut the web browser interface down
Even just forcing them to stop blocking access on the website when they detect a phone would be nice.
I have to enable desktop mode on ironfox since ~2 years ago for my bank. Then the scaling is terrible and its hard to click buttons
They don’t seem to care about Apple cut for other app stores why would they care about this.
Cause it’s a European / national security concern in the long run.
They don’t even do that with their own apps.
Maybe they can regulate themselves first as a start then. They already use Matrix, so it’s not like they are completely lost regarding IT Security and FOSS.
Development of Linux on mobile will ramp up
0,1% of Android users care enough about privacy or foss to switch to Linux if Ndroid is enshittified too much.
This may not seem like a lot, but that is (I estimate) 10 times more than the current number of people daily driving Linux on their phones.
I hear good things about this.
I hope so. But I’m gonna be real grumpy about it when I can’t tap to pay for shit anymore because all of the standardized payment apps will only work on signed Google and Apple devices.
I thought tap to pay was already restricted like that
It is, but I’m fine with using stock Samsung in exchange for near complete control of my own device. They take away side loading and I’m out of here.
Yes. As long as GrapheneOS still exists there is at least some hope. The sad thing is even before this outside of GrapheneOS there really isn’t any other “ROM” actually focused on privacy.
Graphene is focused on security, not privacy
This is definitely not true. GrapheneOS is focused on privacy, security, and usability. It has many features that are solely for increasing privacy and control and implemented in very robust ways. For a couple of examples, see the Contacts and Storage Scopes features.
This is a common misconception people have as a result of misinformation being spread.
Only if enough people support it…
Fuck it, I’m going back to Landline
It’s more expensive than you think, and it’ll probably be VoIP even if you get it from a “normal” phone company
Weary traveler, I beseeth thee to not harken down this path.
I hear tales of dark spirits haunting those old byways. Ones of greed, with an emotionless façade, and hunger for gold from too-eager souls.
Do tell. I heard it is just VoIP. I guess there is surveillance there too?
I was more referring to telemarketers. Lol. I don’t use landlines anymore for that reason. I’ve thought about it from time to time, but then I hear about the experiences of other people who still have them, and apparently it’s just a telemarketer cesspool at this point.
As of right now, it’s looking like GrapheneOS will be unaffected, and Google has yet to lock down the bootloader. So this should remain a valid option for at least 2 years.
Other than that:
- Any smartphones with an unlocked bootloader + any ROMs without gapps
- Chinese smartphones with non-Google Android builds
- Linux smartphones
- Bonus: Huawei is about to release their own non-Android OS, but I wouldn’t expect it to be privacy-friendly
Honestly there probably isn’t any good, long-term solution. Personally I’m somewhat shocked we’ve gone this many years with reasonably open smartphones. Next step is probably closing bootloaders in new laptops, as part of the switch to ARM (which is already undergoing).
I’m pretty seriously considering the pinephone. I think it’s super neat there’s a LoRa module backplate you can buy with it, although my understanding is nobody has made it work with meshtastic yet.
I’m a huge fan of Pine64, but I wouldn’t expect the PinePhone to be a great replacement for an Android smartphone. Personally I have quite extensive experience with PineBook Pro, PineTime and PineBuds Pro. I haven’t had the chance to try the PinePhone, but I’d definitely go for the Pro.
Even then, prepare for a junky experience and forget about lixuries such as good camera, nice screen, smooth UI/UX. Their devices are great, and the ideas behind them more so. But unfortunately they rarely work well, perhaps with the exception of PineBuds Pro.
FYI, the Pro has been discontinued: https://pine64.org/2025/08/14/august_2025_short_update/
Hey everyone! As many have noticed, the PinePhone Pro is currently out ot stock on the Pine Store. Unfortunately we have to deliver you the following news: the PinePhone Pro is officially discontinued. We were told it didn’t sell well enough to keep production going. But the good news for current owners are that spare parts will still be made for up to two years, depending on demand. Meanwhile, the trusty PinePhone (A64) is still alive and kicking, and Pine Store plans to keep it rolling for about two more years.
Well, that sucks. So I guess the better move here would be to wait for something new? I don’t think the regular PinePhone is at all viable as a daily driver.
Depends, if it is used as a dumbphone (calls, SMS, being in sleep most of the time), it is okayish. However, going outside dumphone sphere, it becomes cumbersome to use.
I’ve always wanted to try one of these.
yeah i can see this kinda thing becoming the resistance by the looks of it. i’m already wondering to myself if it could be practical to use something like this with postmarket or aosp.
i wonder if i could make it thinner and more ergonomic if i desoldered unused io.
Said this in another thread
So how long until celluar providers also say you have to have a trusted device to activate your SIM? Apple, Google, Samsung, automotive and Windows would be fine and they’d probably allow their branded or limited hotspots.
This would basically eliminate any Linux option (pc or phone), and DIY devices. I could see other OOB vendors getting on board to be certified to have a certificate issued to them.
with esim, this gets even easier for them to do.
What about a Murena phone such as the Fairphone 6 ? Is /e/os impacted?
Fairphone 6, especially with /e/os is not an option atm from a security standpoint. But then again, no phone is except iPhones and Pixels (and more recent Samsung phones).
Fairphone 6 does not keep up with standard Android privacy/security patches and has no secure element to provide working disk encryption for typical users not using a strong password, among other flaws.
Regarding privacy, Murena is shilling their own proprietary Apps as alternatives to Google.
/e/OS includes numerous non-private apps and services. The Murena voice-to-text service included in /e/OS even sends user speech data to OpenAI with no local option compared to Apple and Google both offering offline speech-to-text support via local models which users can make sure is always used:
https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509
Taken from the Graphene OS forum
Taken from the Graphene OS forum
Well if you’re gonna quote a mentally unstable individual that thinks his OS is the only perfect one and all others are inferior and laughable, all while only running that OS on… checks notes… Google’s phones…
mentally unstable individual
Got any links on that?
while only running that OS on… checks notes… Google’s phones…
They obviously don’t do that to please Google.
There is a lot of misinformation and harassment material circulating online about Daniel Micay. Notice that they are the victim of extensive online bullying which has spread all the way onto KiwiFarms. Would suggest not consuming that content because it won’t give you an accurate depiction at all.
I’m a community member of GrapheneOS and I’ve not had any bad experiences with the GrapheneOS team or Daniel Micay specifically. They maybe communicate a bit more directly than some other people do but they are not being toxic or aggressive at all. I’ve found them to be patient and understanding.
Note that the thing many people describe as “toxic behavior” refers to posts made by GrapheneOS social media accounts in response to harassment. Defending yourself against harassment is not toxic. It might not look good in isolation becuase the quality of those conversations often degrades very quickly, which will have an impact on the GrapheneOS responses, but you have to look at those messages in context.
the frequency to which you keep hearing the phrase “mentally unstable” is the clearest sign that people are parroting a talking point that’s fueled by an agenda somewhere.
The guy was an asshole and had to step away from GrapheneOS.
You’ve got to be kidding me, have you seen the Mastodon account of GrapheneOS? There is no haressnent towards them, the only ones doing the haressnent are GrapheneOS.
They are either defending themselves against personal attacks / harassment (which was also present in this thread before moderation intervention) or correcting unintentional misinformation about GrapheneOS features. That misinformation is often made by drawing a wrong comparison between GrapheneOS and other OSes. Correcting that isn’t harassment, just like defending yourself against personal attacks isn’t harassment.
They obviously don’t do that to please Google.
I know, it’s supposedly 'cos they’re the only good phones, which is a kinda weird take considering the diversity of devices out there but i’m not into the gory details.
There are no phones with working encryption (a must imho and a lot of others) except the ones I listed in my initial comment. iPhones are no option because they are not unlockable. Samsung recently announced they will remove the option to unlock the bootloader as well. They also have a very broad and everchanging lineup of phones.
Google Pixel has been more of a hardware and software reference to developers than a Phone people would usually buy up until the redesign with the Pixel 6. There are so many hardware and software features that make it the perfect device to develop against (up until the recent events lol).
I’d recommend you to read their own documentation on this topic.
You can just read the requirements section on the FAQ page of their website. It explains the reasoning. It’s all based on technical reasons: https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
GrapheneOS is not developed by a single individual. GrapheneOS has a team of around 10 full-time developers. They are not on bad terms with all other OSes, they say positive things about iOS regularly. They were also on positive terms with DivestOS before it was discontinued also mainly because it was being harassed by the same groups GrapheneOS is being harassed by.
The founder of GrapheneOS, to person you are referring to, is not mentally unstable. You are making this statement without any basis. You do not have access to their medical file. What you are saying is hugely inapprioriate and the behavior of a high school bully. Even if it were true (it isn’t), you are being an ableist, which just makes you a mean person.
GrapheneOS only runs on Google phones currently because only Pixels are able to meet the hardware requirmeents. The hardware requirements aren’t a very high bar, other OEMs just don’t prioritize security. GrapheneOS in active talks with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them meet the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about how that is going.
Any device and OS that uses standard google play services (and therefore its device integrity system) will be restricted from now on. So either go with AOSP+microG or just plain AOSP like lineage os.
e/os is lineage+microG so shouldnt be affected. Lots of apps like banking stuff are starting to prevent their apps from running on on google certified devices however. You will have to test case by case.
