We all know Signal, Matrix, Telegram, SimpleX, etc… But if you can’t access the internet you can’t communicate. Pretty logic. But would it be possible, at least theoretically, to create an app that permits to message people even if the internet goes down?
It might be a dumb question I really have no idea to be honest.
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yggmail is a fairly obscure and experimental take on email on a mesh network: https://github.com/neilalexander/yggmail
Would this work through something like meshtastic?
yggmail specifically, probably not. yggdrasil uses TCP/IP and the Meshtastic latencies to perform connections would be too high AFAIK. It would probably only work in a fairly well-connected network. yggdrasil could be used directly over a WiFi protocol but it would need fairly good reception to function.
N.B. I haven’texperimented with this myself.
There used to be one years ago that used WiFi radios or Bluetooth or whatever so you could chat to people near you… I totally forget what it was called though.
Bridgefy?
Briar?
I don’t thiiiiink that’s it, but like I said, I don’t remember the name, so it might be 🤷♂️
Briar is the one that was mentioned a lot when the protests were happening in Taiwan, if that helps 👍
Taiwan? 🤨
You mean Hong Kong?
Yes, sorry. I woke up in the middle of the night, but apparently my brain didn’t…
I’ll correct it now 👍
Bridgefy was used more during protests since it’s available on both iOS and Android, while Briar is Android only.
Bridgefy seems to require an online account to use. Brair requires zero obline accounts, and even allows sharing the apk to nearby devices without internet.
Edit: Yea, just checked… Bridgefy requires an internet connection the first time you launch it. Not good…
Yeah I’m not saying Bridgefy is better, just that it’s available on both major mobile platforms while Briar isn’t. I do prefer Briar on technical and privacy levels.
Yes, this is totally what I was thinking of!
The first thing that comes to mind is Meshtastic: https://meshtastic.org/
I mean this is a terrible answer, but DS pictochat fits that
pictochat FTW
No joke, I was talking about this recently. I feel like niche groups (me included) are just going full-circle back to the DS days
If you don’t want to use internet the only ways are to use radio or deploy your own network infrastructure (optic fiber or cell tower), so there’s no really any messaging app that can be used without internet. Briar can use Bluetooth but with a limited range, needing an actual dense mesh network.
Woah Briar is really cool. I think this is like what I want Signal to be.
I found Berty yesterday just after making this post. But as a neophyte in cryptography and everything, how am I supposed to know which one is better for my privacy ? (e.g. between Briar and Berty) Because right now the only thing that I have is what the apps are “telling” me so… Yeah I don’t know how to chose.
Honestly if you don’t want to think too much about it, go with Briar, it’s way more battle tested, while Berty seems like it hasn’t seen much adoption since it’s younger, both have a bit of development activity I saw, so I can’t say if one is more or less maintained than the other
As for the actual question of gauging which has the better cryptographical implementation, I don’t know either, beside the most surface level information I know very little.
I believe if you want to look into it, you’ll have to start from their whitepapers
Isn’t this what airdrop was?
wouldn’t a cheap walkie-talkie be more practical in that situation?
i remember using this app some time ago ☞ https://f-droid.org/packages/org.jsl.wfwt/
wouldn’t a cheap walkie-talkie be more practical in that situation?
That’s not secure or encrypted
You can encrypt a radio.
Rattlegram is an app on iOS/Android that alllows converting text to audio and play it over your phone’s speaker
Secure Space Encryptor (SSE) (known as Paranoia Text Encryption on iOS) is an Open Source app that can encrypt text.
- Use SSE to encrypt text
- Copy-Paste the Ciphertext to Rattlegram
- Sent it over the radio
- On the other end, use Raddlegram to turn the audio back to the ciphertext
- Use SSE to decrypt.
Voila! Off-Grid Encrypted communications.
Warning: Encryption over radio is illegal in many countries 😉 (but fuck the law lol, who cares)
You can encrypt a radio.
Yes, but that requires you and the one(s) you’re communicating with to mod some radios and then to keep those radios secret, which won’t be easy once you start using them, especially in a situation like that where the government would probably be scanning those frequencies for exactly that
Meshtastic can be encrypted and is LoRa based. Can easily hit nodes dozens of miles away with a good line of sight. It also relays messages across nodes to reach even further distances.
Surprised nobody mentioned scuttlebutt yet https://scuttlebutt.nz/
SSB can use the internet to share encrypted messages via hubs/servers, but it also can share the same messages peer to peer in a mesh sort of setup without the internet using a ‘gossip’ protocol within a local network. It was invented by a sailor who was regularly away from WiFi due to being at sea.
yes, a lot of people were using those kinds of apps during the free hong kong protests, they go from device-to-device with no internet in between.
No idea what the app is called, but apps like those exist
This was a common thing that was developed for the international protests after Arab Spring, which would frequently have their Internet shut down as a State tactic to prevent communication amongst protestors.
Mesh net chat apps like FireChat were born in response
Check out Reticulum Network Stack using LORA radio. Works really well.
Briar (Android Only) - Uses Bluetooth, Wifi, or Internet via Tor to communicate. You can theretically create a large mesh group with enough users. Think of protests where the government shuts down the internet. Downside is, bluetooth range is 10 meters 😓.
Also: You can send encrypted text over SMS using Secure Space Encryptor (SSE) (known as Paranoia Text Encryption on iOS). It’s an Open Source app that can encrypt text.
- Type text
- Copy the Ciphertext
- Send and tell the recipient to use SSE fo decrypt.
You both have to share a password/passphrase over a secure channel, then use that to encrypt and decrypt.
Or PGP (there are mobile apps), but they aren’t quantum resistant. If someone intercept and stores them, it could be decrypted later. So I recomment Symmetric Encryption like AES 256 (so use SSE for better security, since they use AES 256)
You can also encrypt a radio:
Rattlegram is an app on iOS/Android that alllows converting text to audio and play it over your phone’s speaker.
As mentioned before, SSE.
- Use SSE to encrypt text
- Copy-Paste the Ciphertext to Rattlegram
- Sent it over the radio
- On the other end, use Raddlegram to turn the audio back to the ciphertext
- Use SSE to decrypt.
Voila! Off-Grid Encrypted communications.
Warning: Encryption over Ham Radio bands is illegal in many countries 😉 (but fuck the law lol, who cares)
There’s also Meshtastic, but it has much shorter range, but, in the USA at least, they aren’t “Ham Radio” so they (supposedly) can be encrypted legally.
Yea but there are android versions too. Its to send files over WiFi direct phone to phone with no network but some also have chat.
Oh interesting! I’ll take a look into it thanks.
