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Joined 10 months ago
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Cake day: December 13th, 2024

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  • Your claims lack links to supporting references. At least I provide them & link to multiple distinct passages that all seem to converge to the same conclusion. As for the translation, we’re not about to learn ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek to refer to the earliest texts. This is where linking to a more faithful translation would come in if you can do that.

    refer to the pagan concept of an afterlife

    Not pagan: the Torah refers to Sheol as either (1) a metaphor for grave or (2) a bleak netherworld where all the dead reside (comparable to Hades). The Tanakh (Daniel 12:2) mentions a general resurrection & afterlife. This made its way into the Old Testament.

    The Pharisaic school, which became Rabbinic Judaism, claimed to keep an explanatory Oral Torah for the written Torah, which they eventually codified as the Talmud. This started with the 2nd Temple period before & concurrent with early Christianity, thus influencing its scriptures. The Talmud refers to an afterlife in terms of Sheol, Olam Ha-Ba, Gehinnom:

    • Olam Ha-Ba: a place of reward for the righteous
    • Gehinnom: a cursed valley identified in the Torah that also refers to a place of 12-month punishment/purification for the impure before they may proceed to Olam Ha-Ba. (The utterly wicked may not proceed.)

    Cultures evolve & acquire ideas from exposure to other cultures. Their traditions & mythological texts are no exception. Judaism & early Christianity likely adopted ideas of duality of good & evil, free will, resurrection, an afterlife, divine justice from contacting cultures.[1]

    in line with Pharisaic Judaism

    The word in question there is “gehenna” which carries a very specific meaning that does not, in any way, infer an afterlife.

    They claimed the contrary: see earlier mention of Gehinnom (the Hebrew name for Gehenna).

    the unrighteous are destroyed

    In all translations, the famous passage in Matthew about sorting the sheep & goats to different sides specifically mentions eternal punishment for those who don’t get eternal life. Moreover, resurrection is a life after death, ie, an afterlife. None of this is consistent with lack of punishment.

    As I wrote before, the Bible is inconsistent, so even the Bible you claim is mistranslated indicates you’re right about the absence of an afterlife & the absence of hell. They both do & don’t exist!

    We’re both right. We’re both wrong. Welcome to inconsistency: you can read absolutely anything into the Bible.


    1. Mediterranean & Near East cultures in regular contact were likely exposed to ideas from

      • Ancient Egypt: the idea of an afterlife with divine judgement traces as far back as 1500 BCE.
      • Persia: the oldest passages of the Zoroastrian Avesta (the Gathas is thought to have existed before 1000 BCE) introduce a cosmic duality between asha (roughly good) & druj (roughly evil), free will, & personal accountability resulting in a duality of rewards in the afterlife: the house of Song or best of existences rewards asha whereas the house of Lie (described as a place of prolonged darkness, foul food, woe) rewards druj.

      The Tanakh refers to ancient Egypt & evidently admires Cyrus the Great (of Persia) by designating him a messiah for the return of Jews to Zion and building of the 2nd Temple. Christianity features the Biblical Magi (the term for Zoroastrian or Persian priests). ↩︎


  • I checked before writing the last comment, and it’s mentioned a few times. Nonbelievers are punished in the afterlife.

    Revelation 21:8

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Only “born-again”/baptized enter heaven

    John 3:3–5
    1. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    2. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    3. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    and believers should not perish, but get everlasting life.

    John 3:14–16
    1. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    2. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    3. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    As for those who do perish, that happens in hell.

    Matthew 10:28

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Nonbelievers are denied entry.

    Matthew 10:33

    But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    This all appears in the New Testament.

    The older, Jewish scriptures don’t mention hell. However, Deuteronomy 13 is all about Moses instructing the Israelites to murder heretics. Moral bankruptcy.


  • The Bible is an inconsistent mess that people can read anything into. Referring to it is an exercise in cherry-picking. It has good Jesus parts, but there’s the whole rest of the morally bankrupt nonsense with evil god shit:

    • vengeful god who
      • commands genocide, demands worship, & creates evil
      • punishes disobedience with curses, plagues, cuckoldry, cannibalism to eat your own children, slavery, infighting
    • endorses genocide, killing innocents, slavery, selling daughters to sex slavery, rape, forced marriage of victim to their rapist, inequality of women
    • weird purity codes against pork & shellfish; mixing fibers, crops, animals; particular facial hairstyles; tattoos; body modification; etc.
    • an afterlife that punishes nonbelievers who do good

    all while claiming to be the final word of god. Arguing for good while referring to the Bible requires willfully overlooking all of that: it isn’t good.









  • I don’t know, man. I assume they have information they may find in a phonebook; data I voluntarily gave social media & networking such as my school or employment, demographics, relations, peers, & whatever they can glean from peers; my shopping preferences; rough geolocation from my IP address; my ISP, OS, web browser, content I’ve browsed. None of this information is particularly valuable to me. It would take incredible effort for me to code & host a search engine or social media site or the various other free web applications I use. I value those way more than my junk data that is worthless to me, so the trade-off is obvious.

    The government has access to much more sensitive information about me: social security; government issued licenses & registrations; birth, education, tax, property, police, medical, telecommunication, financial records. Only the law & procedure prevents it from abusing that access.

    Without online data brokers, anyone could gather much of the same, less sensitive information about me though plain observation, public surveillance, or interviews: only time & effort discourages them. Seems like a lack of perspective.


  • And while I understand that not everything is private, we have laws against gathering public data about people but only if you’re just one person.

    That’s not why. The reason is nothing you wrote about fits the legal definition of stalking. A typical legal definition

    A person commits the crime of stalking when the person either:

    • engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts toward another person, including following the person without proper authority, under circumstances which demonstrate either an intent to place such other person in reasonable fear of bodily injury or to cause substantial emotional distress to such other person; or
    • engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly communicates to another person under circumstances which demonstrate or communicate either an intent to place such other person in reasonable fear of bodily injury or to cause substantial emotional distress to such other person.

    An element of the definition (circumstance) is sorely missing in your claims.

    Stalking has less to do with information & more to do with (legal definition of) harassment. Simply gathering public data about someone isn’t a crime. Expectations of privacy in public are nonexistent. Your premise is dubious.



  • Indirect information is not a choice we have offline, either.

    So shadow profiles come from either

    • public information (not private by definition)
    • information other users shared
    • information 3rd parties got from each other or the former?

    Seems like the problem here is information voluntarily given to someone & shared, ie, 2nd-hand information. Unless the information is sensitive (government ID, payment information, medical records, etc), can we reasonably expect society not to pick up information about us from our social network?

    We can choose not to directly divulge our information, but even offline we never had serious expectations that others won’t disclose nonsensitive information they know about us or seen us do. Unless the information is legally protected offline, we never had a choice to control that offline, so we’re not owed that online, either.



  • Apart from identity theft safeguards, the fuss over data privacy of metadata that was never private and voluntary information (especially information that could be found in a phonebook or gathered from public observation) always seemed overblown & misguided. I know

    • the internet wasn’t designed for privacy
    • they have my internet address whenever I connect
    • they can track my usage of their free service
    • they have the information I provided
    • they can coordinate with partners
    • I’m consenting by using their free service

    so why should I act surprised when they do what should be expected to offer that free service? People who do that strike me as a special kind of stupid: do they think the world just runs on magic?

    Free shit in exchange for mostly worthless information & ads I ignore seems like an obvious bargain, but what do I know? Let’s stir everyone into a frenzy to bitch & moan about the ravages of targeted advertising.


  • You aren’t even right, either. Linux package manager repositories??

    Open source gets income through sponsors, profit-earning partners, foundations of profitable interests whose success depends on it. Their continued earnings & livelihoods incentivize funding it.

    No one’s success depends on services like lemmy, so there’s no compelling incentive for it.

    If you can somehow arrange such a dependence for social media (of mostly garbage memes & idiotic opinions) to economically sustain itself, then you’re a genius & humanity will owe you a debt.

    Torrenting clients and the act of torrenting?

    Mostly piracy under constant legal threat unreliably distributing possibly unsafe content.

    Depending on the charity of others for a service that doesn’t yield some obvious incentive to keep that going seems unsustainable. It wouldn’t surprise me for the system to strain with load & eventually fail. It already strains in my experience.