The Octonaut

I can’t remember if it’s an official Asimov book or not, but one of the Foundation books set far beyond even the main series has an archaeological mission finding thousands of ceremonial hard white ceramic bowl-funnels and speculating on their significance to these incomprehensibly ancient peoples.

I didn’t put any words in your mouth… I really don’t understand how you’re not getting that. I said you understand that it’s not true. Literally just read the part you quoted.

Actually none of what you said just now was untrue. The leap that is unexplained is that bringing back a Catholic monarch would turn the UK into a papal theocracy where no other Catholic kingdom was (except the Papal States!).

And that specifically is the part that I’m arguing has no basis in fact - you’re asking me to provide evidence that something wasn’t going to happen. Usually we ask for evidence of speculation, not against speculation. It doesn’t help that the people that could have said so were hung drawn and quartered, and the history written by people who immediately brought in further anti-Catholic legislation.

I genuinely don’t know how you interpret “I’m sure you understand the difference” as “you actually believe this”. But sure, I’m manipulating your mind.

The evidence - well, an argument, because this isn’t a paper - is exactly what you so helpfully brought up the Papal States for. Apart from literally his own domain, the pope did not turn any other nations into a Catholic theocracy because their monarch was Catholic.

It should be the other way around really - this idea of Catholic blind obedience to the pope is advanced as an assumption hy British historians despite having no example or evidence that it would be the case other than “that’s what Catholics are like” despite the Anglican church literally arising from a Catholic English monarch disobeying the pope.

I’m not accusing you of that (in fact I literally said that you understand its not that), but I’m guess you’re ignorant of how that is how it is taught in the British curriculum. The motif you’re talking about Alan Moore using - the Gunpowder plot and therefore Guy Fawkes wanting to replace the noble British monarchy with a foreign theocracy - relies entirely on that context. British history is carefully curated with “that was a foreign plot and the British nation bravely survived it” vs “a foreign ally saved and restored our glorious nation”. For many, the presence of Catholicism is one of the primary deciding factors in that.

Are you usually this unable to take criticism without insulting people? (Yes, daily)

I’m not ignorant of history. I’m on paper still a Catholic, since the Irish church decided to stop taking excommunication requests in 2005. Thanks for the Wikipedia article though.

Yes, very clever, the area the pope literally was sovereign of was under his control. I’m sure a clever guy like you understands the difference between that and the idea that literally any Catholic is 100% subservient to the Pope at all times regardless of their own rank and power, which is the sort of nonsense you’re usually railing against when it’s your flavour of old-timey god-stuff.

Tip though, and a bit of genuine sympathy here, when the UK continues down it’s path of right-wing bigotry and you feel your family isnt safe again, you are now in a Common Travel Area with a far more welcoming “Catholic” nation. Feel free to walk across the border unchecked and I promise I won’t you rat you out for describing a basic awareness of England’s anti-Catholic biases as a “need to be a victim”.

The Pope, who would ultimately have controlled the UK

There’s the anti-Catholic education paying off. Which countries did the pope control again? Why would the UK have been different from Spain, France or Italy? Why does being crowned by a pope or an archbishop differ? How, with apparent seriousness, are you defining the man who said this in parliament as a “secular head of state”:

The state of monarchy is the supremest thing upon earth, for kings are not only God’s lieutenants upon earth and sit upon God’s throne, but even by God himself, they are called gods. There be three principal [comparisons] that illustrate the state of monarchy: one taken out of the word of God, and the two other out of the grounds of policy and philosophy. In the Scriptures, kings are called gods, and so their power after a certain relation compared to the Divine power.

Even today British monarchs are ordained as kings with holy oil. It is not a secular position.

Mind-boggling that even young children don’t see through this blatant myth-building for what it is. The same scaremongering is used even today by regressive Orangemen about papish plots.

trying to turn England into a theocracy.

Oh! You come with the anti-Catholicism baked in. The Brits will love you.

Fascinated by the continued adherence to the idea that overthrowing a monarch who is simultaneously the head of the national church is a movement toward theocracy.

Being very cynical, how does killing them faster not lessen the burden on society at large? It’s a burden I’m glad we choose to bear, but just literally mathematically, the amount spent worldwide on treating people with smoking damage is astronomical.

https://ash.org.uk/media-centre/news/press-releases/smoking-costs-society-17bn-5bn-more-than-previously-estimated

British Isles

Which part of Britain are you from?

Are you using Google’s DNS?

The impossible part is that it isn’t publicly available. It’s not an open model.

Is Midjourney available for use locally now? Or have you misunderstood Midjourney taking 30 seconds to generate from their server as happening locally?

My friend, Zeus cheating on Hera has been a recognisable reference for 3000 years

All physical touch is essentially electromagnetism

“The Prime Minister of Northern Ireland”

The artificial division was already in place and a non-representation puppet state did the thing they were told to do without any input from the affected population. The partition away of part of Ireland, including non-unionist areas, had already happened. The ability of the British government to fabricate history with nonsensical language long predates this (“The British Isles”) and continues to the modern day (“confidence and supply”).

chose to opt out

lol

I promise you I read the rest of your crap (I promise you, the only means by which I am “uneducated” is by virtue of not having been brainwashed by the British education system which is incredibly light on British history…), but I almost didn’t when you opened with this outright farcical statement. Oh and the St Patrick’s Saltire is part of the Union Jack and yes, was used during the terrorism against Irish people, both government sanction and otherwise.

It isn’t my job to educate you on your own history (our own history), and I suspect if you’re the type of person who thinks what Belfast City Hall does on St Patrick’s Day matters a tap to anyone, there wouldn’t be much point in trying. The good news is that my government will happily do so in a generation or so. Irredentism is alive and well my friend, since the DUP broke the Good Friday Agreement by joining government and trying to establish a border on the island of Ireland. The consequences will be long remembered.

There is no such country as “The Republic of Ireland”. You’re thinking of Ireland, which is a republic.

The tricolour represents all people on the island of Ireland. Can you guess why it is green white and orange? Your decision to be offended by a flag (fleg) that was specifically designed to pander to you is your own.

St Patrick’s Saltire has absolutely no connection to the saint and is at least as offensive to most Irish people as your strange aversion to the tricolour by virtue of being a British invention to place (and keep even after Irish independence) Ireland on the United Kingdom flag.

Finally, anyone who is offended by being associated with Ireland or its flag is quite unlikely to want to celebrate the life of a Catholic saint, particularly not the Presbyterian Ulster Scots (the American descendents of which would have spent something less than a generation in Ireland before being replanted in America).